Menzo: Do you really believe this scenario [sketched in your Avant-Guerre predicting a race war of world-historical proportions in the White West]?
Guillaume Faye: I do -- just as much as I believe that if you drive down the wrong side of the freeway you will eventually have a head-on collision. The precise moment such a collision will occur is difficult to predict, but it is certainly bound to happen. Within ten years or so we are going to be confronted with something never before seen. But more than race war, we are going to experience economic breakdowns, ecological crises, and catastrophic shortages of oil. ... All the world's governments operate with short-term agendas and nothing at this point is more disastrous. It is often said that the Earth is sick. But it is man that is sick.
Menzo: Following the assault on the Twin Towers, we became increasingly conscious of how vulnerable the global economy is. What possible alternative is there to it?
Guillaume Faye: Globalization was born not in the last decade, but in the 16th century. This fact, however, is not going to avert the impending catastrophe [it is fostering]. An alternative to it is what I call l'autarchie economique des grands espaces [that is, Grossraum or continental economic autarkies]. In such large areas, Europe, for example, there would be free circulation of goods, capital, and labor [but barriers raised against other geo-economic blocs]. If all the great continental spaces, such as Europe, Asia, Africa, etc., practiced such autarkic policies, it would be possible to maintain a certain level of well-being across the globe. It isn't necessary to sacrifice everything to free trade. The fact that textiles are massively produced in China today has had a terrible effect on the French textile sector. Clothing, however, hasn't gotten cheaper in France nor have Chinese textile workers experienced much of an improvement in their living standards. Only commerce has profited.
Menzo: What importance do you attribute to the global economy?
Guillaume Faye: As much as I attribute to the impossibility of integrating large numbers of immigrants. General De Gaulle use to say: "In order to make kir [a mixed drink], you need white wine and cassis syrup. If you add too much cassis, it's no longer kir." This is another way of saying that it's only possible to integrate a limited number of foreigners. At present, in Seine-Saint-Denis and in certain other departments of the Paris Region (and also in Roubaix and many other large French cities), a majority of the population is no longer of French origin. It's impossible to integrate such populations.
Economically, the situation is even worse. Out of every one hundred [Third World] immigrants who enter Europe, only five enter the workforce. By contrast, one out of every two French graduates (and the same is true in Belgium) wants to immigrate. This is eventually going to bring down the existing welfare state, which, in turn, will only increase the potential for conflict. The riots we recently experienced [the twenty-one nights of riotous anarchy that occurred in November 2005] are only the prelude to the catastrophe which I expect to happen sometime around the year 2010. Canada's Wright Foundation is also predicting that in the period 2007-2010, there is going to be an outbreak of ethnic violence in France that will take the form of civil war. It makes this prediction on the basis of a diverse range of statistics, such as increased levels of violence, as well as growing evidence of hidden arms arsenals. Islam's massive concentration in our cities and suburbs is a problem that will soon make itself felt.
Menzo: The riots in November, however, didn't have a religious character. The most common explanation for them has been social exclusion and discrimination.
Guillaume Faye: We're always looking for social-economic explanations. This is not only the Marxist way of thinking about conflict, it is an incorrect way. Immigrants today are receiving massive state supports. I would even argue that illegal immigrants now get better medical care than French natives. Portuguese and Spanish immigrants who came to France in the 1930s and '40s received no aid at all, but it was never cause for riot and mayhem. Professor Loland, recipient of France's Economic Prize and the leading authority on the subject, estimates that the direct and indirect costs of immigration today is 36 billion euros [$44 billion] a year. This constitutes 80 percent of the French state's deficit, or 13.5 percent of its annual social security costs. And this is not Le Pen arguing this, but a reputable academic. Every immigrant who crosses our border ends up costing us 100,000 euros. It's absurd, then, to claim that immigrants are neglected. Just the contrary is true. Clichy-sous-Bois, where the November riots broke out, receives half of all aid allotted to troubled urban areas. It's my belief that the instigators of the riots were simply waiting for an opportunity to riot:
Menzo: Is there anything to suggest that organized crime had a role in instigating the riots? Eighty percent of the rioters [arrested] had some sort of criminal record.
Guillaume Faye: This is not the way I see it. The riots weren't provoked by Sarkozy [who called them "scum"]. And actually it was only eight percent of the arrested rioters who had criminal records. . . . In my view, it was more an [ethnic] revolt than a criminal attack on the police. It's thus necessary to know why they revolted.
Menzo: Another indication that the riots were the work of criminal gangs was that the Fatwa [Islamic religious injunction] issued by the Union des organizations islamiques de France [the largest French Muslim association] had no effect on the rioters. This suggests that the rioters' inspiration wasn't religious.
Guillaume Faye: It is often forgotten that Islam is hypocritical on principle. The Koran says that it is perfectly permissible to lie in certain circumstances; whenever, for example, one is in a weakened state or whenever it serves Islam's interests to do so. It is perfectly reasonable, then, to think that Muslims wanted to appear to non-Muslims as opposed to the riots, while amongst themselves they supported it. Dominique de Villepin [the Prime Minister] has said as much. Of course, this isn't the case with all imams [Muslim leaders or clerics], but it is likely the case with those who see themselves as part of Islam's campaign of conquest -- its Dar-al-Harb.
Islam sees its mission as unfolding in three stages: the Dar-al-Suhl in territories which Islam has yet to conquer; the Dar-al-Harb in territories in the process of being conquered; and the Dar-al-Islam, in which Islam has succeeded in subjugating the non-believers. Every year there is published in Egypt an Islamic year book. This year's edition designates France, Belgium, and the United Kingdom as territories at the Dar-al-Harb stage. This, then, is the situation in which we are at present. One should not forget that during the riots two Catholic churches were destroyed. Dalil Boubakeur (the imam of Paris' Great Mosque) condemned these church burnings, but he didn't excommunicate those responsible for it. This was also the first time that public buildings were attacked and burned: police stations, public schools, etc. This has been made light of [in the public sphere], but it's heavy with significance. It is also the first time that people were killed - four to be exact...
Menzo: What do you see as the cause for this?
Guillaume Faye: One cause is the mass, unbridled immigration we have allowed. In Canada, for instance, immigrants are selected according to their profession, their wealth, and their economic potential. We, on the other hand, have grouped massive numbers of immigrants from rural [Third World] economies whose customs and cultures are totally different from our own, who are entirely unprepared for what they will encounter here, and who lack any of the proper educational or professional requisites [for integration]. Who could possibly think that this would work? - even with the gigantic investments the state has made in housing, education, and special programs for them.
Japan is about as wealthy as we are, but it has hardly any immigrants; and those it has cannot count on the slightest state support. In France, by contrast, the number of young people of foreign origin will virtually double in the next ten years. Integration is not working. The politicians refuse to acknowledge the catastrophic implications of their policies. Most are concerned only with their careers. Some are too old to even care. Why should Chirac [the president] worry about what will happen in ten years -- he'll probably be dead by then. Besides, politicians look at the population as an electorate [made up of voters who can be periodically replaced]. But people are not replaceable. They belong to well-defined cultures and are attached to the mentalities in which they were formed. A Brazilian is simply not exchangeable with a Russian. But only the politicians seem not to realize this.
Another cause for the riots is the increased number of sub-Saharan Africans. These groups will cause even greater problems in the future
Guillaume Faye: Because unlike Maghrebian immigrants [Arabs from Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia], they are completely desocialized. The Maghrebian population possesses a definite family structure, with a father and a mother. In sub-Saharan countries [whose population is Negro], such structures are non-existent. Mothers can have children with different fathers and children are raised [not by the family, but] by the village. When such familial structures are exported to a city like Paris, it inevitably produces problems. Paris is not a village and the rearing of children is not its responsibility. The [offspring of these Africans] frequently turn to crime and end up in the justice system. They don't know who their father is and no one takes responsibility for them. Their presence here is like a time bomb.
Menzo: You've pointed out that from 1989 to 1999, the rate of juvenile crime [in France] increased 176 percent and that the number of those convicted have tripled. You don't attribute this growth to unemployment. What is its cause?
Guillaume Faye: There are two reasons why crime is increasing. The first is social heterogeneity. Every diverse population has problems with criminality. The two countries with the lowest levels of crime are those with the most homogeneous population: Japan and Costa Rica. Aristotle was the first to note that a society cannot be democratic and harmonious if its population is not homogeneous. Without such homogeneity, it becomes tyrannical.
The second cause of criminality stems from the permissiveness of those responsible for maintaining order: the police and the courts. In Tunisia, there's massive unemployment, but crime is relatively minor because the police and the courts react to it with severity. In Saudi Arabia, you can leave your keys or your wallet in the car and no one would think of stealing them - because otherwise they might have their hands cut off. With us, on the contrary, foreigners experience a situation where, since 1968, all forms of repression have been rejected.
Menzo: You have also written that crime will finance the impending race wars? Do you really think there is a plan for this?
Guillaume Faye: It's not only been planned, it's already happening. Police reports show that criminal gangs are now helping finance the insurgency in Iraq. Of course, not all criminals are participating in this, but it exists. And they [the authorities] think it is possible to buy social peace! It is estimated that three tons of cannabis are distributed every month in the Paris suburbs. Another source of funding is stolen cars and a third the trafficking of electronic goods. Prostitution is also a source of revenue, as well as arms dealing. Whenever the authorities discover a [criminal] arsenal, it includes not only military arms, but also hunting rifles, which are ideal for urban warfare.
Menzo: In your book [Avant-Guerre], you put Islam on the same level as other ideologies that seek to rule the world: Communism, American liberalism, globalism. But isn't history a long succession of systems and ideologies that seek world domination?
Guillaume Faye: Not at all. Look at Judaism, which is an ethnic religion and has no intention of converting the rest of the world to its belief system. Neither Buddhism or Shintoism seeks world conquest. But Islam does, as did Catholicism, Communism, and neo-liberalism. Islam, though, is the most aggressive of all these. For it is not simply a religion, but a political doctrine. And this doctrine is imperialist. Twice before in history it has sought to conquer Europe. The first time it was stopped by Charles Martel at Portiers [in 732]; the second time, in the 17th century, it was beaten back at the walls of Vienna. Islam's present conquering ambition was revived in Egypt in the 1920s. I'm convinced that certain Islamic leaders believe the moment is now right for a third offensive against the West. As the former Algerian president Houari Boumediene once boasted, the Islamic world today carries in the wombs of its women the weapons that will conquer Europe.
Menzo: The first generation of immigrants displayed absolutely no hostility to us. The third generation seems more segregated than ever. Is this the result of the Palestinian conflict, which has generalized anti-Western behaviors? Is this the source of the current problem and is there a solution to it?
Guillaume Faye: It is certainly one of the sources, but it's hardly the only one. Even before the Palestinian conflict, anti-Western hatred was ripe. It stemmed in part from the hatred colonization fostered. But opposition to the West also arose from jealousy [of Western achievement]... The Palestian conflict has certainly acted as catalyst for hatred, but even if it were resolved tomorrow, there would still be a problem. Europe is also despised because it has become weak and emasculated. Its permissiveness invites indulgence, which makes us an easy target. Muslims find themselves in a society that is morally degenerate. One philosopher recently referred to the Hindu notion of the Kaliyuga - the Age of Iron. According to this ancient prophecy, there will come a time when men will marry men and women women, the kings will become thieves and the thieves kings, and mothers will kill their babies in their wombs. Eh bien, we are not far from this.
Menzo: In your book, you put the Belgian situation on a par with the French one. Belgium, however, lacks France's massive, alienating housing projects. Our immigrants usually reside in 19th-century urban quarters, which have maintained [their human character] and are largely free of the "no-go zones" that [make the French situation so dangerous]. In your view, how is Belgium threatened?
Guillaume Faye: You're right. The French banlieues [with their modernist housing estates] are unique. They were constructed to house French refugees from Algeria. In the course of a single week [in 1962], a million Frenchmen were evacuated from [newly-independent] Algeria. It should be emphasized, though, that these projects built to accommodate this influx were not at all disagreeable, for there was then a good deal of money available to finance their construction. At the same time, new residential towns (such as Paris Deux, near Versailles) were built to house not foreigners but the well-heeled middle class. This is quite different from the situation in Brussels, today the symbolic capital of Europe and the seat of NATO. But what counts [is not the housing situation per se] but the fact that a massive part of the population is non-European...
Menzo: Do you think, then, that riots will eventually break out in Brussels?
Guillaume Faye: As I see it, it is only a matter of time... Though Brussels is perhaps better situated than Paris, it is not likely to be spared.
Menzo: In the United States and Britain, there are periodic outbreaks of rioting, but these are usually between rival ethnic gangs. In France, the riots were directed against the state itself. Police and firemen were shot at and attacked. How did it come to this?
Guillaume Faye: In the United States, there are, for example, increased conflicts between Blacks and Mexicans. In France, on the other hand, non-French gangs turn [not on one another, but] on France itself. Rap music has had a role to play in this. Rap's subversive effect should not be dismissed. But more, these immigrant gangs find themselves in France because France has helped them; [the resentment this causes] is something distinct to the Maghrebinian/Islamic mentality. It's a very peculiar sentiment, but is nevertheless something that has to be accounted for. You hate those who help you, because you feel humiliated when helped. The more they are coddled, the more, then, they are likely to react aggressively. Besides, empathy isn't fostered by weakness. In promising immigrants more aid and money after the riots, the Villepin government acted unwisely...
Menzo: Besides more riots and urban warfare, you predict an escalation in the nature of terrorist attacks: micro-, macro-, and giga-terrorism, including the possible use of nuclear weapons against the United States. Do you really think this is possible?
Guillaume Faye: Naturally. The scenario I've depicted is not far from being realized. In time, all these things will be possible. We can expect something a hundred times worse that 9-11. It's only a matter of time.
Menzo: You've criticized the intelligence services for a lack of imagination and vigor. You've said that they are not reflective enough and have not fully understood the different modes of fundamentalist belief. However, nearly every month the intelligence services manage to foil various planned terrorist assaults. Is the peril really as great as you claim?
Guillaume Faye: You need to distinguish between the maintenance of order and the collection of intelligence. Western intelligence agencies have done much good work. They have managed to break up numerous clandestine cells and terrorist groups. But more is needed. It is necessary to have a large, well-informed group devoted to this. You also need to have in place the means and personnel to quickly sound the alarm. This is how the terrorist assault on the Strasbourg Cathedral was foiled. You also need to capitalize on terrorist mistakes. Prior to 9-11, a female employee in a private pilot school noted that certain students were devoting all their time to learning how to fly and not to take off and land. Only months after the fact did anyone pick up on this... Believe me: The unthinkable is going to become thinkable. What Baghdad experiences every day, we will soon know.